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Comment wars are ugly, but they can be fun
There's been plenty of hand-wringing about the nastiness of comments, particularly anonymous ones, made on ad-industry Web sites. Some feel they make the ad world look silly, juvenile and petty. Ah, but they can also be fun. Check out the battle royale that erupted on AgencySpy in response to an anonymous piece on the best digital shops. This kind of thing is great link/comment bait, but things took an interesting turn when Craig Elimeliah of Freedom and Partners lambasted Firstborn Interactive as being on the decline. That didn't sit well with Michael Ferdman, Elimeliah's former boss at Firstborn. He promised to take the gloves off, and boy did he ever. "Maybe as your boss says you should stop 'jerking off' and actually get down to some work," Ferdman wrote. "Speaking of work ... do you ever actually work or just blog, tweet and pretend to be important all day?" Ouch. Elimeliah answers back, and his new boss joins in, along with cameos by Big Spaceship CEO Michael Lebowitz and Barbarian Group COO Rick Webb. It's a pretty ugly public spat, but the comment critics can't blame anonymity for the bad behavior. —Posted by Brian Morrissey |
Comments
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1. Social Media Experts ( I hate that these idiots call themselves that ) should get a back bone or stop posting. They are overly sensitive egomaniacs and the majority post for self promotional purposes. Then cry like babies when they get slapped into their places.
2. "...made on ad-industry Web sites." This happens in all industries and is just human nature.
3. High level executives should not get into the these spiffs. It shows poorly on their companies and will effect their employees in the long run.
4. I'm anonymous for a reason. May be you should be too?
Posted by: ANONYMOUS | May 4, 2009 1:13:02 PM
Entertaining read, thank you. If I were Firsborn et al, I'd be a worried. They come across as petulant and self-important. Certainly not someone who is capable of honoring an N.D.A. They also seem to not want to share credit with their agency partners. They want all the credit. Children.
Posted by: John Hammer | May 4, 2009 1:14:47 PM
"but the comment critics can't blame anonymity for the bad behavior."
Nope. It's all real and whether it was a good move or not in the part of some of the participants, at least people were willing to put their names to their opinions. Progress. ;-)
Posted by: David Armano | May 4, 2009 3:06:56 PM
Best thread of the week!
Posted by: Rebecca Cullers | May 5, 2009 1:12:27 AM
LAMBASTED?
I think that is going a bit far, I actually said nothing bad about any one of those shops.
I also did not mean to say that Firstborn was on the decline, rather that they have moved away from the more artistic executions that they were known for in the past and have become more (i don't really want to use this word) commercial.
Perhaps my comments came off as too critical because they came from a much more comfortable place, had I been a stranger to FB then I would have understood why they felt so attacked.
Regardless, all of what transpired got way out of hand. If within an industry we cannot give one another encouraging jabs or honest criticism then we have surely not matured.
The "ad" media, like the rest of the ad industry, really doesn't understand the digital part of this industry because both as culture and a discipline it is so new and so different.
The digital shops out there are all amazing in their own right, each one bringing to the table something special. Granted Flash is Flash and yes we all can do it, programming and building sustainable and stable systems, yep we all pretty much can do that too.
Basically it boils down to who is the most efficient, adds value, brings creativity to the table and makes the client feel great about working with them.
The work is the work, you can not tell me that Firstborn's last 5 projects are any better or any worse than Unit9 or B-Reel, im sorry you cant, if anything I can make the case the other way around.
The press also doesn't know how to evaluate work, to look for technical nuances, fine details, challenges and creativity that to the novice may seem like nothing more than what should be there but to a trained eye is absolutely amazing!
Perhaps we need more digital folks going into journalism so that the digital realm can be reported on fairly. The AgencySpy cage match wasn't because of my comments or my ex-bosses rage but because the forum was out of whack, he didn't know how to approach this topic, it didn't belong there and he doesn't belong in the conversation.
If you want to really evaluate who is the best in digital then I would gladly volunteer to help put together a true group of people who will really get you the answers you want.
Everyone else is irrelevant, unless you have produced, designed, directed, programmed or rendered, stayed up all hours solving a problem or gotten your ass kicked by both the client and your clients client, unless you have been asked to do teh impossible under budget and with way less time than humanly possible, you just dont know...
Posted by: Craig Elimeliah | May 5, 2009 8:13:17 AM
Craig, you truly are a child if you think you and your digital colleagues are the only ones who know, can understand, what you're going through. The agency business has been dealing with "all hours solving a problem or gotten your as kicked by both the client and your clients client....asked to do the impossible under budget and with way less time than humanly possible" is pretty much what we all do every day whether we work in a digital, direct, general, pr, media agency or film, digital production company. It's what we do.
Posted by: Jason | May 5, 2009 9:55:54 AM
Jason,
Thanks for the insult without even asking for clarification, very adult of you.
I in no way assumed that other disciplines do not have similar challenges, what I am saying is specifically directed towards digital, and when having a conversation about digital and its various nuances and complexities, one must be immersed in that particular world.
I am well aware of the countless hours and impossible tasks given to other areas of the business, but that wasn't what the conversation is all about, it was about digital specifically.
Culturally, digital is NOT rooted in the ad business and what we are trying to do here is to integrate it so that we have clearer forms of communication, better levels of expectations and a general understanding for a new medium and how to critique and evaluate it.
Thanks though.
Posted by: Craig Elimeliah | May 5, 2009 10:29:05 AM
Your words, not mine Craig:
"Everyone else is irrelevant, unless you have produced, designed, directed, programmed or rendered, stayed up all hours solving a problem or gotten your ass kicked by both the client and your clients client, unless you have been asked to do teh impossible under budget and with way less time than humanly possible, you just dont know.."
I stand by my claim.
Posted by: Jason | May 5, 2009 11:36:22 AM
Right on. I couldn't agree more.
Craig, you sound quite conceited, but that's just my "encouraging jab or honest criticism."
Posted by: @Jason | May 5, 2009 11:59:35 AM
Jason,
In that conversation!
Posted by: Craig Elimeliah | May 5, 2009 12:04:59 PM
Craig,
I think it's a fair characterization. Here's what you wrote about Firstborn: "I think they have been declining in recent years."
Posted by: Brian Morrissey | May 5, 2009 12:43:48 PM
My bad, I should have worded it better. What I did mean to say was that they have veered away from sites like http://www.kpf.com
Not an insult, just an observation.
Posted by: Craig Elimeliah | May 5, 2009 12:50:50 PM
This is friggin' BRUTAL!!! And what's up with George? He's on the verge of an aneurism!
Posted by: phoenix | May 11, 2009 6:11:29 PM
